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Post by Gooden on Sept 2, 2008 9:33:44 GMT -5
I agree with trex that the schools don't step in a take action when the students that are beneficial to the school misbehave. They go through the coaches so that removing them from the team wont be neccessary. But I think there is a line that has to be crossed. I'm sure if their actions are too bad, then the proper punishments would be enforced.
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woody
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Post by woody on Sept 2, 2008 9:47:32 GMT -5
I think you guys are basing a lot of this on assumptions. Trex, you talked about athletes getting special treatment and when the topic of other students getting special treatment came up, you accused Kount of changing the subject. It still belongs in the STUDENTS get special treatment category. At least if it's an athlete misbehaving, the school has the coaches to turn to. If it's just your typical nuisance born of privileged parents, then you don't really have anyone to turn to and the action could go somewhat unpunished all together.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe they report the situation to the coaches because that option is available? Why not use the sport that he loves to punish him? Most of the trouble makers when I was in school preferred the secluded world of ISS. It's where they wanted to be anyway. If FBLA and IDFY and other organization had punishment procedures like sports, maybe those students would be reported to their leaders as well for misbehavior. You say being an athlete in the area of punishment is an advantage, I say it is a disadvantage because it gives the school additional ways to punish you.
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trex
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Post by trex on Sept 3, 2008 18:48:20 GMT -5
Woody,
I don't think I'm making assumptions. I'm certain that athletes, especially football players, get special treatment at Richmond. But, I wish an objective study would be done to prove it one way or the other.
Kount is great, and he runs a great internet site But he made a common fallacy when he noted that football players, or athletes, are not the only group of students at Richmond who get special treatment. It's like saying " Sure, drunk drivers cause accidents, but so do sleepy drivers and drivers with two or more teenage passengers in their car and drivers who use cell phones and who eat while driving Not a good argument if we're talking about drunk drivers, you see?
In my opinion we have a serious problem in this county and at Richmond: athletes. especially football players, get special tratment. In matters of violating rules and school discipline, school rules and punishments frequently do not apply to athletes.
And you made the point: "Did you ever stop to think that maybe they report the situation to the coaches because that option is available? Why not use the sport that he loves to punish him? Most of the trouble makers when I was in school preferred the secluded world of ISS. It's where they wanted to be anyway..."
Man, this is so wrong. The simple reason that adminisrators and teachers should not use coaches to punish athletes who misbehave is because student-athletes are students, and the school discipline code should apply to them just as it should to all students. Discipline, like the law, should be blind so to speak. No-one is special. But more than that, other students see the athletes getting away with violating the rules. This creates resentment and disrespect. You must realize that.
But, in my opinion, the reason coaches are relied on to punish their athetes is because they do not want the school rules to apply to their athletes. They, the coaches, want teachers and administrators to call them when an athlete violates rules specifically because if the school rules applied to their athletes, then some of their athletes would become inelligable to play. This is almost certainly true for Jeremy Harden.
Because winning football games is so important, the administration goes along with this corruption. If coaches really cared about disciplining their players and buiding character they would insist on the school rules applying to their athletes. Then, if the coaches wanted to add additional punishment, they could make the rule breakers run windsprints.
Look, recently our beloved head football coach was quoted in the Daily Journal as saying, "It's all about winning championships". He didn't say "It's all about building character in his players" or, "It's all about having fun". I take him at his word; I believe him. I also believe the administrators place way too much value in having winning sports programs. It's so important that they will allow athletes to get away with school rules infrations. It's corrupt and there is no way around it.
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roach
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Post by roach on Sept 3, 2008 22:46:56 GMT -5
first of all i played sports at richmond for 3 years and i can tell u first hand i never recieved special treatment for playing any sports..i in fact had one teacher my senior year that almost failed me and really did not like me because i played sports..some players may get special treatment but do not talk like just because u play football you are praised around richmond and you will never get into trouble because i did..i had to go to ISS and i know plenty of players that gotten into trouble and was punished not only by the coach but by the school administration as well..and please trex do not even try to get on the coaches.."the beloved head coach" that you spoke of wouldn't even think about getting you out of trouble in school..i know because i played under him for 3 years..he was not only my head coach but my position coach and yea he might have said that its about winning championships but he never preached that to none of his players especially his HOGS i promise you that..he told everyone of us that he would be more proud of us if we grew up into respectful men than if we ever won state..he sat me down plenty of times to talk to me personally not to get me on the field to win games but for me to get my head on straight and not to mess up my life..and on this whole Jeremy topic he should be suspended a few games for him to realize that you can't do stupid things no more..were in college and we need to act like young adults..i promise you he will get the picture after all this because i have known and played with him for many years now..this may be the best thing to ever happen to him because he will get his head on straight and become not only a better football player but a better person all around
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aj2008
Junior Member
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Post by aj2008 on Sept 5, 2008 16:51:24 GMT -5
great post roach
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trex
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Post by trex on Sept 5, 2008 23:28:26 GMT -5
Roach,
First, I'll respond to your last point- the one you made about Jeremy Harden. You wrote that he should be suspended for a few games and that this might help him get his head on straight. And you suggested that what he did was a "stupid thing" as if it were just some crazy college boy mistake that he made. Have you frigging lost your mind? He's alleged to have held a young woman over a balcony! He doesn't need to miss a few games. He needs to go to jail. And the coach at Coastal, if he's not a typical gutless coach, should immediately cut him from the team. And the administrators, if they are not the typical limp-wristed administrators, should expel him from school. If Jeremy is guilty, what he did is not a joke. It's not a crazy college prank. Is that the sense of morality and ethics you learned from your football coach at Richmond?
You also wrote that as an athlete you never recieved special treatment while at Richmond. But you acknowledged that some players may get special treatment. You know they did. You saw it evey day, even if you personally didn't recieve special treatment. Think about the great athletes we've had who have gone on to play football at college; you know the ones who went to the University of South Carolina, Georgia U. and East Carolina? Were they treated like the other students? Do you think they have ever read a book? Do you think they could have graduated from high school without special attention and treatment? Maybe you should go back and ask their teachers and classmates: "Did such and such football star go to class and do his work?" And what about the talented athlete at Richmond a few years back who turned out to be dealing drugs from his home. Was it special treatment when the then head football coach at Richmond did everything he could to keep this young athlete on the football team and in school? You know who I'm taling about don't you? And these are not isolated examples. Do a little research and ask around about ol' Jeremy Harden to see how he was treated special.
And back to your ol' buddy and mentor, the present head football coach at Richmond. I'm glad you have so much respect for him, but I'll fll you in on a litle secret. Upon reading this, you might understand why I'm not one of his greatest fans.
First, last school year, when all the students were exited about the new school realignment and the creation of the new 9th grade academy, and when nearly all of the teachers in the county-xcept of course those high quality limp-wristed teachers who have friends at the central office-were worried and anxious about where they would work and teach the following year, guess what our buddy the football coach did? You won't believe it. Yes, he visited at least one junior high school and promised certain teachers that if they would coach football, he could get them teaching positions at the new academy. No, not PE teachers, as you might expect, he promised science, social studies and English teachers who are coaches, teaching positions at the acedemy. He overlooked the bright, hard working science, social studies and English teachers- you know the ones who don't coach, but who do other things like sponsor clubs and tutor stidents and stuff? They were not important to our esteemed head football coach. Can you imagine being that arrogant?
But, more than that, our epidomy of moral fortitude, your coach, told these lucky teachers who he had chosen to teach and coach at the academy that they wouldn't need a head coach there; he would be their head coach. That's right our humble leader made it clear that he would control football at the new academy even if he didn't work there. You know, he wantet the 9th graders to learn his plays and his system. Can you imagine being that arrogant? Power and winning must be pretty frigging important to the man.
I can see all the little football coaches at Richmond,- the little suckups who were brought to Richmond county and given jobs at our high school not to teach, but to coach-exitedly scurrying around like ants to find out who this trex is.
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truth
New Member
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Post by truth on Sept 6, 2008 14:22:26 GMT -5
Trex-nobody really cares who you are, because the accusations you make are false and furthermore show cowardice. If you have the issue that you seem to have, then you should go see the school board. You choose to hide behind a moniker on a message board. You're a big, big man.
Furthermore, it would only make sense for coaches to teach at the school where they work. It also makes sense for the high school head coach to be in charge of high school football. You do know that the 9th grade is considered high school, correct?
Also, Roach wouldn't have to go ask teachers and students if his classmates went to class. he was in class with them. While he was far from perfect, he made good grades and has good scores on standardized tests to back up his performance in the classroom.
Finally, I do want to apologize that you were hurt by the realignment. You seem bitter and upset about the changes. Perhaps, if you or perhaps your significant other had better credentials you would have received the job wanted. Perhaps, you should seek some professional help to get your hormones back in balance. All of the estrogen and cortisol is very bad for your health.
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trex
New Member
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Post by trex on Sept 6, 2008 17:24:18 GMT -5
Truth,
You're only eighteen years old and you used the word "moniker"? Man, that's pretty good. Maybe you've read a book before, unlike those classmates of yours who excelled at athletics at Richmond before going on to play football at major universities.
And, maybe you can show me where my accusations are false, instead of merely asserting that they are false?
And, you've made an incorrect assumption about my being hurt by the realignment. I know good people who were, but I'm sitting pretty. But your concern for me is touching. Thank you. A more correct analysis of my anger would be that I just don't like football coaches. Hehe! You see, sometimes emotions and hatred are simple. Comprende?
And, I really like your reasoning where you stated that "it would only makes sense for coaches to teach at the school where they work". Man, that is a prize. You get the all time award for getting it backwards. Are you from Texas? Did you mean: "it would only make sense for teachers to coach at the school where they work"? But that backwards rasoning is okay for an offensive lineman at Richmond, or your head football coach, or one of those geniuses in the school sdministration or the school board.
Speaking of genuises on the school board. I heard that at the opening meeting for our school system, with all of the principals and teachers present, one of our distinguished school board members, when addressing them, sang a song. I mean that's all she did is sing a song. No speach, no words of inspiration, no wisdom. Nope, she just sang a song. And this intellectual giant, this Winston Churchhill of our school system, gets to make decisions affecting the lives of Trig. and physics teachers? Man, this logic is as good as yours. I say we- the citizens of Richmond County-deserve better. But then again, it was she and her compatriots who made the brilliant decision to create, or at least approve the creation of a 9th grade academy, which I think means "school of higher learning" or something another? And it was these Einsteins who allowed the high school football coach to choose teachers- no I'm sorry, coaches who teach - to teach there. No, Truth, I'm not bitter. I'm just befuddled. To all of you "Hoggs" out there, that means I'm confused.
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truth
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Post by truth on Sept 6, 2008 18:43:01 GMT -5
Truth, A more correct analysis of my anger would be that I just don't like football coaches. Hehe! You see, sometimes emotions and hatred are simple. Comprende? Well, I think you just lost any credibility with that zinger. Obviously, you won't be able to have a partisan discussion so i am feel sure most folks will choose to ignore you from here on out. And far as accusations being false, why don't you prove what you say? Instead of simply saying you know it to be true? Finally, if you are that unsatisfied with Richmond County, you are always free to move to a county more to your liking. Simple minded people usually have simple emtions such as blind hatred.
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Post by powercenter on Sept 7, 2008 1:22:39 GMT -5
:-*JUST TO LET VERY ONE KNOW DON'T JUDGE TO QUICK JEREMY WAS CLEARED OF ALL CHARGES
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woody
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Post by woody on Sept 7, 2008 22:08:52 GMT -5
:-*JUST TO LET VERY ONE KNOW DON'T JUDGE TO QUICK JEREMY WAS CLEARED OF ALL CHARGES Good to hear. Hope he will take advantage of this opportunity.
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Post by Kount Klepto on Sept 7, 2008 22:26:59 GMT -5
OK, I've done as asked and taken a little survey.
Survey Details 108 students voted.
21 - Seniors 11 - Junior 28 - Sophomores 14 - Freshmen 34 - Middle School
61 - Male 47 - Female
When asked if they thought athletes received special treatment in regards to discipline and punishments: 91 said No (84.3%) 17 said Yes (15.7%)
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roach
New Member
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Post by roach on Sept 8, 2008 9:55:41 GMT -5
Trex first of all u responded to my statements about Jeremy and stress the word u used, he's "alleged" blah blah blah..do you know the truth because yea i do..im glad he got cleared of the charges but i still hope it opens his eyes. Lastly don't insult my intelligence with tha whole "HOGS" remark, don't even try it..because if your trying to say that the o-lineman at Richmond are not smart then your ignorant because we had the 2nd highest GPA on the team as a group, falling just short of that of the Kickers but i mean is that a real group on the team, just playing i had some friends that kicked..so back to my point your just making yourself look stupid if thats what your trying to imply
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Post by SC Raider on Sept 8, 2008 9:59:27 GMT -5
WOW! Suprised to see the results were that one sided. I think it would be foolish to think that athletes receive NO special treatment, but I also think Trex's version of this special treatment is a bit exaggerated.
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trex
New Member
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Post by trex on Sept 8, 2008 19:35:26 GMT -5
Roach,
I did imly that the "HOGS", or the iffensive linemen, are not intelligent. I shouldn't have. I was trying to be a smart #%$! and sarcastic. My beef is not with the offensive linemen at all. I believe and trust that the offensive linemen are smart and respectful. And I know that many of the other players on the team are outstanding students and great citizen-students.
Furthermore, as much as I gererally do not like football coaches, I realize that Coach Hoggard has tightened down on discipline; he expects his players to behave and follow the rules of the school.
But, I still know that many athletes have recieved special treatment. Jeremy Harden is one of them. Again, think about some of the football players who are now playing at major universities. I was not kidding when I wrote that they have never read a book. Two of them may have been the poorest students ever to have graduated from Richmond. And now they are playing at Universities. How'd that happen?
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